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vista laptop gets limited access message (2) (Read 13479 times)
Dave Levy
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vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Dec 26th, 2009 at 11:36am
 
This thread is a follow on from a similarly named thread which was hijacked into a discussion on multi router networks at post #17.

I have a couple of Vista systems that persistently lose wifi connection. I believe its a Vista/HH problem; our apple mac, ipodtouches, XP host and PS3 can all connect. I have one Vista machine which seems to be OK. My home hub is one of the black ones, with software version 4.7.5.1.83 (Type B). I use a variety of anti-virus products on the Vista machines, Norton, Kaspersky and AVG.

My usual remedy has been to reboot the hub, but recent behaviour is that my work vista machine can't hold the address for long enough to do any work, so I need a better answer.

The previous thread said, I have a problem with Vista & HH,  which was confirmed, and documented as occurring on a netgear router as well. A discussion occurred on the efficacy of turning off the wifi broadcast. The relevance of an observed failure of Vista to connect to a wifi printer was discussed together with the quality of Microsoft and BT's software engineering capability. Didn't BT outsource the BT HH appliance OS?

In post #9 Flanker reports that he has assigned a fixed IP address to his Vista machine, sadly, he is the netgear user. In post #10, Bramshott discusses the non-ubiquity of the problem. i.e. he has one of several Vista boxes that won't connect. Flanker confirms that he can get it to work with one machine and not another and documents his anti-virus solution. Bramshott suggests it might be to do with suspend/resume. Flanker gives up and installs W7, Bramshot suggest he might too as a previously reliable laptop begins to struggle.

At this point the thread is hijacked.

My research prior to writing this thread which I have documented at my bliki, includes finding Jarviser's advice to check the driver software versions and discussions around the Microsoft Page discussing Vista's DHCP. There is a Vista feature which requires that the router i.e. dhcp server supports the DHCP BROADCAST flag. The Microsoft Page shows how to check if the flag is set, it also documents the registry location that holds the flag. One of my failing systems has this flag set to 1, i.e. on ( I think, its not easy to identify the wifi nic entry in the registry, they're all ID's by stupid multi-byte serials, and don't seem to have the user/admin allocated name stored. (I should check the other Vista machines to discover their flag settings)).

Finding anyone at BT who will talk to you about their product is difficult, I have contacted http://twitter.com/btcare, who suggest firstly that I change the wifi channel. I am not hopeful that this is the answer; I am not on the default, (I don't think, need to check this.) and all the non-Vista technology works.

The previous thread implied that setting the laptops to have dynamic but fixed addresses might fix the problem. NB In my language, addresses can be static, i,e, set on the laptop, but I haven't made this work with the BT HH, i.e. I have failed to make this work on the BT HH. I have made this work with a netgear router. They can by dynamic but fixed, i.e. allocated by the dhcp server, which will always allocate the address to the same system. I use this for my desktops and the household server, or truly dynamic, which means a system may have any one of a bunch of addresses in the dhcp pool, which I use for all laptops & appliances i.e. 'touch and console. I mention this because confusion between static, a computer configuration and fixed, the router configuration is easy to find.

So the question,

Is there a Vista specific problem?
Shall I change the channel, and risk having my Wife's Vista laptop fail?
Has anyone configured their Vista laptops as dynamic address clients?
Shall I continue to explore the Microsoft documented Vista feature?
Has anyone has this problem and made it go away?

Please do not hijack this thread, if you want to talk about something else start a thread of your own. Angry

Sorry for the length of the post, hope it makes sense




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JM
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #1 - Dec 26th, 2009 at 2:59pm
 
Check your HH wif-channel - what is it??

I have heard this can be a problem with vista (maybe certain cards) if above the region limits (stick it on 2 or 3 for the heck of it).
- Although once connected I can't see it disconnecting because of that.  Sad

If it were me, I'd restore back to the beginning; like prove wep okay, try WPA only etc.  Bet its something like powersave or broadcast though.
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Dave Levy
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #2 - Dec 27th, 2009 at 8:57am
 
I was on 11, I have taken your & #btcare's advice and changed it. I have decided to use channel 3. I'll report my success or failure later, hopefully today.

Do you have a source for the Vista problem's with wifi that you mention?

Please could you tell me, what are the region limits?

All three Vista machines seem much happier as is the PS/3. I am gobsmacked  Shocked Its early days but we'll see.

@JM Please can you document the science by answering my questions, about where the vista feature is documented and about regional limits. I used previously channel 11, I had inherited it from my previous router, a linksys.  Without knowing why this works I feel like its the equivilant of turning the box on and off.
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« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2009 at 1:25pm by Dave Levy »  
 
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JM
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #3 - Dec 28th, 2009 at 4:07pm
 
Not so simple I'm afraid - won't touch vista at home (so nothing documented here), but I hear folk suffering the same.  I didn't look it up but for sake of argument if our region/c.code is blocked in with chs1-11, using ch12 could work until something like vista chooses to prevent it.  As an aside, getting on for a third of ordinary folk use ch11 so that never helps.  It was daft to suggest using only chs1,6&11 - I know why but it is still duff advice, in the end more people end up on the same channel and the rest are wasted.

Your solution will revolve around eliminating the other stuff until you are left with the cause of disconnects.  Moving channels is easy and a good thing to do. 

- But I've 1p on power and another penny on drivers today.  Smiley
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Dave Levy
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #4 - Dec 28th, 2009 at 6:17pm
 
OK, so the Vista thing is anecdotal, that's fair enough...its why we use and have forums.

Which channels are regionally approved? Which one's arn't? What is the agreement and which body promulgates it?

I havn't a clue about any of this.
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Jarviser
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #5 - Dec 29th, 2009 at 12:20am
 
The IEEE manage the 802.11 standards. 1 thru 11 are globally accepted, channel 12 in some countries including UK (I think)


see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels
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Three Mobile 3G, Huawei e586 MiFi, Macbook Pro  - Haven't got ADSL any more so working from memory.
 
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Dave Levy
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #6 - Jan 2nd, 2010 at 10:49am
 
This thread now has a short URL, http://is.gd/5Jvxb

The test period is atypical i.e. the holiday period, but this means one extra laptop in the house and extra playstation use.  I have no idea about the usage by my neighbours and thus their wifi systems. Connectivity is better. Thanks to all  Smiley
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Dave Levy
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #7 - Jan 21st, 2010 at 2:15pm
 
Now we are back to work after the Xmas break, we still get occassional failures, including in one instance the Mac.

In local access only, flanker writes,

Quote:
Delete/un-install any BT software if it has been loaded on the laptop, it does not need it and windows does a better job. If a v2 hub change the hub broadcast to b/g, the default is b/g/n.


So I plan to do this.

The thread local access only details the experience of another person who has poor connectivity between a Vista laptop a BT HH 2.

Another correspondent, point us at inSSIDer which may help in choosing which channel to select. i.e. a locally unpopular one.

I originally asked the following questions

Is there a known Vista specific problem?

    It seems that no one has documented this as a Vista specific problem, but
    advice like remove all the BT software from the laptop and the recurrence of
    the problem in these forums with Vista hosts suggests it may be a factor.

Shall I change the channel, and risk having my Wife's Vista laptop fail?

    I did this, since correspondents above suggested it should be done. I haven't
    tried the default of automatic on this hub. Should I try it? Also, I don't turn the
    hub off. Might this be part of the problem i.e. should I set channel to automatic
    and reboot the hub periodically

Has anyone configured their Vista laptops as dynamic address clients?

    Why did I ask this? I'd expect most people to configure their laptops as dhcp
    clients. I suspect some DHCP crapness. My windows laptops are configured
    as dhcp clients and the dhcp server (the HH) is configured to allocate the
    addresses from the pool. i.e. truly dynamic private addresses. The desktops
    are configured to get the same address each time but they are dhcp clients
    and not statically assigned. The Linux box is static, I think. (Could this be the
    problem as it uses an address within the pool but is not a dhcp client?).

Shall I continue to explore the Microsoft documented Vista feature?
   
    We're not there yet.

Has anyone has this problem and made it go away?

    I havn't yet and still suspect some dhcp crapness. I don't think anyone here
    has fixed it for good.

Basically, my windows vista connections are not reliable enough. I have changed the channel and they're still not good enough. What shall I do next?

All my Windows Laptops, including the XP laptop are are Dells. I returned the Toshibas before the HH arrived. (Might this be a factor? )
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #8 - Jan 21st, 2010 at 8:04pm
 
Dave Levy wrote on Jan 21st, 2010 at 2:15pm:
. The Linux box is static, I think. (Could this be the
    problem as it uses an address within the pool but is not a dhcp client?).

)


Commenting on this part only, the HH issues addresses under DHCP in numeric order starting from.64 up to .237 as devices boot up and connect (unless fixed using the 'always use this address' option).  The DHCP doesn't know about static addresses in that range, so it can try to assign the same address under DHCP to a second device.  It is best to use static adresses well up the range so it is unlikely that there are ever enough devices connected for the hub to ever reach that address under DHCP.
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Now on Infinity / V3 and no problems with comps including macs, iPhones, iPads,apple tv etc it's wonderful!
 
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Dave Levy
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #9 - Jan 21st, 2010 at 8:21pm
 
I have adjusted the range that it uses so it starts from elsewhere. I have a maximum of 11 devices, hmm, interesting. Is there another limit?

This is a great piece of advice and I shall review my network and see if its part of the problem.  Cheesy
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JM
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #10 - Jan 22nd, 2010 at 11:37am
 
Are you au fait with the Vista's event log?

If so, I'd have a nose there at the exact (PC) time it dropped connection and see if there are some issues getting logged.  You *might* just find something to match - a software entry, network event etc.
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Dave Levy
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #11 - Jan 28th, 2010 at 9:43am
 
More good advice, which I'll try and take next time it happens, but I have been away from the hub for a couple of days.
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Dave Levy
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #12 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 8:10pm
 
So I have been on the road, and despite my various experiences I have ordered another BT Broadband line, and now have another Home Hub, which has just barfed my works Laptop, which is a Dell E4x00 running Vista.

Event Viewer:

Error: The IP address lease 192.168.0.120 for the network card with networkaddress xxxxxxxxxx has been denied by the DHCP server 192.168.1.254 (The DHCP Server sent a DHCPNACK message).

Is this a DHCP knackered code?  Cool

So interestingly different sub net codes, earlier today I have been at work, some where else, and then back at work, I then returned to my flat where my home hub's dhcp server has mucked me up.

Any more ideas?

BTW, this is the same computer, but a different hub from my earlier contributions.

My Apple Mac and Google Phone connect just fine, I am about to try a windows reboot, I have already rebooted the hub.

NB: I came home, and opened the Laptop, it connected fine and worked for about half an hour before barfing. Windows reboot reconnected OK.
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JM
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #13 - Feb 18th, 2010 at 11:36pm
 
Dave Levy wrote on Feb 18th, 2010 at 8:10pm:
So I have been on the road, and despite my various experiences I have ordered another BT Broadband line, and now have another Home Hub, which has just barfed my works Laptop, which is a Dell E4x00 running Vista.

Event Viewer:

Error: The IP address lease 192.168.0.120 for the network card with networkaddress xxxxxxxxxx has been denied by the DHCP server 192.168.1.254 (The DHCP Server sent a DHCPNACK message).

Is this a DHCP knackered code?  Cool

So interestingly different sub net codes, earlier today I have been at work, some where else, and then back at work, I then returned to my flat where my home hub's dhcp server has mucked me up.

Any more ideas?

BTW, this is the same computer, but a different hub from my earlier contributions.

My Apple Mac and Google Phone connect just fine, I am about to try a windows reboot, I have already rebooted the hub.

NB: I came home, and opened the Laptop, it connected fine and worked for about half an hour before barfing. Windows reboot reconnected OK.


Not at all, your L/T asked for an address outside the hub's scope.

A real OS would have gone away and asked dhcp for a new one - or is you L/T fixed???  A reboot sounds like it kicked it back into honouring dhcp. 

Another thing, do you have something else on the network which might be remembering the wrong subnet and fooling your L/T into retaining that address??  (PON adapters fool vista).

- This is on wireless?? So then is your signal droping and you have a fixed IP alternate address in which happends to match (work??) subnet but fails as it should on your HH.

Remind which brand of laptop.  Are you (have you been) running tunnelling vpn or anything, if so perhaps you need the L/T restored from s/by but without a network for 5/15 mins so it gives up properly and doesn't assume a comms break.

/thinking out aloud mode  (gotta be the subnet ... 10p today)
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Dave Levy
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Re: vista laptop gets limited access message (2)
Reply #14 - Mar 8th, 2010 at 9:52pm
 
When working 'at work', I am connected with a wire using the LAN driver, while at home and elsewhere I am using wifi.

I have had a torrid evening and configured my Linksys at the location the last two posts referred to. I shall continue to report my progress and failure at my other home (don't ask  Angry ) on this thread and continue to ask for your help.

I shall post my Linksys findings in another thread. Hope its not deleted or locked for irrelevance.  Undecided

At http://is.gd/9ZhMH, which takes you to a thread on these forums
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